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Thread: Aftermarket calipers and rotor size

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    Leroy Peterson's Avatar
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    Aftermarket calipers and rotor size

    If you run upgraded or aftermarket calipers, share the details and your rotor size.

    I currently run R32 GTR Sumitomo front calipers, one of the calipers has been causing issues on and off for a while (banjo bolt thread is stuffed, so got it helicoiled but its more of a temporary fix) and run N16 hubs with 280mm rotors.
    Ideally I'd like to run 300mm rotors for ease, in the future it would be nice to put some racing 4 pots on the front and 2 pots on the rear.

    1) How hard is it fitting AP racing/Alcon/Wilwood calipers to N16 hubs? custom spacer/brackets needed? is it possible to run them on N15 hubs?
    2) Anyone run 2-piece rotors in 4x100?
    3) Or is it worth ordering 280mm 4x100 rotors directly from DBA (custom order)?

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    Id be interested too leroy. Also what master cylinder and booster are people running. Im looking to upgrade the fronts(ad22vf's) and rears on my car.

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    sss4me's Avatar
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    i have heard that dba no longer do these rotors, could be wrong. sam flay (sam robert on poc/pga f/b) has done willwoods and ap racing and big disc's on his almera. has some spacers made to suit.contact him

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    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    Administrator Spectrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Peterson View Post
    I currently run R32 GTR Sumitomo front calipers... and run N16 hubs with 280mm rotors.
    Hi. Are you actually running a 280mm disc with R32 GTR calipers? That's way undersize :/


    1) How hard is it fitting AP racing/Alcon/Wilwood calipers to N16 hubs? custom spacer/brackets needed? is it possible to run them on N15 hubs?
    Yes you can run aftermarket calipers with N15 hubs, yes you'll need custom brackets. But you already have N16 hubs, no?


    2)Anyone run 2-piece rotors in 4x100?
    Two piece rotors are very uncommon in this market because $$$$


    3) Or is it worth ordering 280mm 4x100 rotors directly from DBA (custom order)?
    DBA will not custom make rotors, it's unlikely that they'll even supply blanks without a long lead time.
    Running aftermarket cailpers with 280mm rotors will cost a lot of money and you'll gain nothing.

    If you're set on replacing everything, the Skyline R34 GTT Sumitomo four pots will take a 30 x 310mm disc (machined down to 302mm to use with with N16 hubs, and redrill to 4x100 if that's what you're currently running).

    Brake upgrades are expensive, a lot of work and substantial risk if you make a mistake. It pays to research carefully beforehand. If your R32 GTR Calipers aren't leaking then stay with them, they're very capable. But take note they're supposed to run with a 32 x 296mm disc. On N16 hubs it should be machined down to 288mm to suit those calipers.

    Hope that helps. You should check out the brake upgrade thread here.

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    Leroy Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J35U5 View Post
    Id be interested too leroy. Also what master cylinder and booster are people running. Im looking to upgrade the fronts(ad22vf's) and rears on my car.
    I'm still running the SSS 15/16" master cylinder and booster, it seems to do the job fine.

    Thanks for the info spectrix. Things that make me want to change calipers is:
    A) if I just replace with another gtr caliper, all are second hand so need to get it rebuilt. Always have to buy in pairs.
    B) I've had issues in the past with failed front bearings. The cost and time involved with sourcing N16 ABS hubs then machining them and redrilling is a PITA.
    C) machining 300mm rotors to 280... Never again! I'm not sure who or how they mounted the calipers... But I would need spacers made up with the current calipers regardless.

    In terms of cost... do it once etc...
    I also know a number of people who have had good results with the aluminium calipers out of China (brands like D2, ATTKD etc)

    I did ask Sam about his setup but he didn't really give any specifics (eg caliper part number).

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    If in doubt, boost it out Paullus's Avatar
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    This is a useful thread for finding Nissan OEM calipers and their respective disc sizes: Brake Upgrade N14 & N15

    Personally I went the 2 pot Maxima (A32) route a la Cozzmo: Twin Piston Brake Upgrade

    My setup (not aimed at you Leroy, you're obviously chasing bigger!)
    A32 Maxima 2 pot calipers
    280x26mm DBA discs (not slotted, the T2? were about $230/ea from what I remember!; RDA do a slotted for cheaper if you *really* want slots)
    QFM A1RM pads
    Penrite Racing Fluid (the old SIN fluid)
    HEL braided lines
    N16 hubs
    and I'm still rocking the N14 7/8" master cylinder. The pedal has plenty of travel which I've grown to like (especially that I don't have ABS) however sometimes I think I'm hitting the end of it when I've braked a bit deep/in too hot. I think it's got a minor leak which doesn't help the cause, but I'll probably upgrade to a 15/16" (N15 SSS) BMC soon (haven't forgotten Leroy!).

    Have braked from 160-170 will no dramas multiple times (with a bit of cooling between each run), and they haven't even had a whimper after 4x1.2km race laps on moderately bendy sprint circuit.

    The best part is there is no special wheel requirements to clear the 2 pots, except with N15 SSS stock wheels; they require a small spacer or the locating ring on the hub to be removed (most aftermarket wheels have a large bore to fit over).


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    That's a pretty cool setup

    I use the QFM A1RM pads, they work great (you'll never over heat them) and they are very affordable
    (although mileage is shorter than ProjectMu but they are twice the price so works out similar in the long run)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paullus View Post
    I'm still rocking the N14 7/8" master cylinder. The pedal has plenty of travel which I've grown to like (especially that I don't have ABS) however sometimes I think I'm hitting the end of it when I've braked a bit deep/in too hot. I think it's got a minor leak which doesn't help the cause, but I'll probably upgrade to a 15/16" (N15 SSS) BMC soon (haven't forgotten Leroy!).
    Having plenty of travel will give good feel and modulation - which is a good thing without ABS

    Would be good to find and fix that leak...

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    Currently running the TDMi 5 Stud kit

    Front; R33 GTST calipers with matched DBA4000 T3 rotors, machined to 288mm with Project Mu HC800 pads and custom braided lines

    Rear; A32 maxima calipers, DBA4000 T3 Rotors to suit A32 Maxima with Bendix GCT pads

    Currently on a pretty boring daily driven n15 SSS with ABS and standard booster/master cylinder

    Project Mu's are awesome, if i was to ever track the car i would probably put them in the rear also.
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    Ruddigger's Avatar
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    Im running R32 GTR calipers , I cant remember the exact diameter of the front discs but they aren't must off a standard GTR disc





    N16 Hubs with standard pads

    I also remade some brake lines and im now running 1" or 15/16 something like that master cylinder , i have bugger all brake pedal movement but works well


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    Administrator Spectrix's Avatar
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    My brake setup is in about the largest I could put together staying with bolt on items on an N15 SSS.

    N16 Front & Rear hubs (4x114.4mm stud pattern)
    Skyline 4 Pot sumitomo (R34 GTT), 310 x 30mm slotted rotors - machined down to 302mm, redrilled to 4x114.3
    Rear - Maxima A32 calipers with 278 x 9mm slotted rotors, redrilled to 4x114.3
    Master cylinder - Standard N15 SSS ABS 15/16"; brake pedal modulation is good with this setup.

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    Spectrix,

    I have an N14 with:
    N16 front hubs
    310mm R34GTT brakes machined down to 302mm
    Gti-r rear brakes
    Gti-r master cylinder

    I was looking at re drilling maxima 278mm rotors to 4 stud and fitting them to the back, as you can use the a32 maxima calliper carrier brackets with gti-r callipers (that way your handbrake still works on n14) and the piston size and pads are the same so it's basically the exact same as using maxima callipers, the only thing you have to do is space the hubs out 12mm for the deeper rotors

    But the main thing I'm trying it get at is that this setup is very unbalanced and I don't think that extra tiny bit of leverage and surface area of upgrading the rears is going to solve my issue,

    I have Nissan rotors and TRW 700degree pads and nulon super dot 4 and I cook my front brakes halfway up the mountain, the rotors literally turn blue after hard driving and pushing in the pedal feels like stepping on a brick,
    So I'm about to go down the road of fitting skyline twin pot rears and a brake bias valve,

    So just a word to anyone doing 4 pots up front, just upgrading the fronts is worse then Gti-r brakes all around

    Hopefully someone learns from my mistake ��
    Last edited by Boosted VLAD; 29-10-2015 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Forgot some info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted VLAD View Post
    I have Nissan rotors and TRW 700degree pads and nulon super dot 4 and I cook my front brakes halfway up the mountain, the rotors literally turn blue after hard driving and pushing in the pedal feels like stepping on a brick,
    I find it exceptionally hard to believe you cook your rotors driving up a hill
    Going hard downhill in a FWD, pretty easy to cook the brakes in that scenario

    In the Pulsar Challenge series (track racing) we use N15 calipers and 257mm slotted rotors
    Myself, I'm using QFM A1RM pads which are rated to 780 degrees
    We can do a two hour endurance race, three big stops during every 1:13 lap, without experiencing any brake fade at all
    (Granted some people with other pads ran out of pad material)

    So the question is, why would your far superior braking system overheat and fade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted VLAD View Post
    So I'm about to go down the road of fitting skyline twin pot rears and a brake bias valve
    That ain't going to help in the slightest

    The rotors turning blue certainly indicates you've encountered significant heat
    You have great calipers and pads, but production Nissan rotors
    The pedal going hard indicates your brakes got so hot that you encountered gas between the pads and rotor
    My guess is you need rotors to match the rest of the brake system
    More importantly, slotted rotors to allow the hot gases to disperse

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    Martin, I hear you,

    My car makes 432whp and I drive the car very hard and this isn't a small mountain I'm talking about and has straight where I can do very high speeds
    The same happens to me in the back straight of QR doing 240kph and absolutely slamming the brakes last second, if I do that a few times they turn blue and purple

    And you hit the nail on the head when you said the pads/rotors get gas built up between them because they get too hot, that's exactly what happens,
    This is why I will be upgrading to slotted and dimpled rotors next and trying different pads too

    The problem is that even before they cook, the setup is too unbalanced,
    I've come around turns and have not seen what's around them and had to put my foot on the brakes (not even that hard) and the car is so front bias with brakes it wants to spin the car out and I've nearly had the back overtake the front a few times,
    Hence why I want to upgrade the rears too and get a proportioning valve to balance the setup
    Last edited by Boosted VLAD; 29-10-2015 at 07:26 PM.

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    Martin, My aim is to get a balanced setup that is not going to fade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted VLAD View Post
    My car makes 432whp and I drive the car very hard and this isn't a small mountain I'm talking about and has straight where I can do very high speeds
    The same happens to me in the back straight of QR doing 240kph and absolutely slamming the brakes last second, if I do that a few times they turn blue and purple
    Crap, I was not expecting that! You're packing some serious performance - LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted VLAD View Post
    And you hit the nail on the head when you said the pads/rotors get gas built up between them because they get too hot, that's exactly what happens,
    This is why I will be upgrading to slotted and dimpled rotors next and trying different pads too
    Perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted VLAD View Post
    The problem is that even before they cook, the setup is too unbalanced,
    I've come around turns and have not seen what's around them and had to put my foot on the brakes (not even that hard) and the car is so front bias with brakes it wants to spin the car out and I've nearly had the back overtake the front a few times,
    Hence why I want to upgrade the rears too and get a proportioning valve to balance the setup
    That's not a braking problem, that's FWD lift off over steer
    Given the power and speeds you can do I'm not surprised you're encountering that

    Did you put a stiffer sway bar on the rear???
    Take it off, go softer in the rear, you'll be surprised with the result
    (Even so, you'll have to watch out for this problem, straighten the steering wheel before braking)
    Last edited by Martin; 29-10-2015 at 07:48 PM.

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    Cheers Martin, haha I'm glad we're on the same page now I thought you weren't going to believe me

    It's a stock SSS sway bar at the back, however I do have very hard suspension,

    When I had Gti-r brakes all around I could press the brakes on a bend and it wouldn't do what it's doing now so it's definitely braking waaaaaaay too hard from the front ever since the upgrade so I definitely think I've messed up the balance, so I really hope my solution works but I will be sure to let everyone know

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    Hmmm, if it is a braking problem I doubt that more rear braking will solve this problem because of the weight distribution and FWD braking bias
    Less front braking would reduce the effect but you need awesome braking

    How hard is your suspension? Front & rear spring rates?

    Is the car very low, that will screw up the handling, need a lower ball joint on the front LCA's

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    The car is a little lower then I'd like it, I will be raising it soon because I want to get my control arms/ steering rack arms and everything else back closer to how it comes stock,
    Spring rates are 11kg front 10kg rear,
    (I'll be changing to BC gold 8/6s soon)

    Martin,
    I understand why you are asking all this because it is very important to every aspect of the cars handling,
    Not many people realise the importance of this stuff and just the fact that your asking leads me to believe you know a thing or 2 about handling

    However, I had Gti-r brakes with the EXACT same setup and they were much better balanced,
    Then the only thing I changed was put big brakes on the front and then I could no longer brake any substantial amount on a bend unless I wanted to end up facing backwards, also braking very hard at the end of the straight at QR it boils the fluid in the front and turning the front rotors blue, that alone is telling me they are HOT AS HELL

    The Gti-r brakes with the same fluid, just simple HPX pads actually faded no later or earlier so at this point I strongly believe that the issue is excessive front braking force, it feels like the rears are doing almost nothing


    Realistically I have 2 options here:
    1. Go back to Gti-r brakes, buy DBA 4000 series rotors for the front and rear, better pads and better fluid (what I should have probably done the in the first place)

    OR

    2. Upgrade the rears to twin pots, get a proportioning valve and better pads, rotors and fluid
    Last edited by Boosted VLAD; 29-10-2015 at 08:36 PM.

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    Ruddigger (30-10-2015)

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    Whoa - them spring rates are very hard indeed - the 8/6 combo is right in the ball park

    Yeah man, you know your car and it's history, I'm just chewing the fat at the pub and throwing ideas out there

    Definitely need to solve the brake heat issue
    I would have hoped that just T3's would be good enough (4000's cost more and very limited selection)
    T2's may be fine in the rear - save a few $

    The balance problem seems to be a riddle and I can understand why it's important to you to solve it - when FWD cars rotate on their own they bite hard
    And it's often tricky trying to solve two problems that are interconnected - that's why I would solve the heat problem first, being the easier of the two to solve

    Here's a very "left field" theory:
    If the fronts have faded, reduced braking, maybe the rears are doing too much braking and turning you around?

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    Leroy Peterson (30-10-2015)

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    Boosted VLAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Here's a very "left field" theory:
    If the fronts have faded, reduced braking, maybe the rears are doing too much braking and turning you around?

    Its a good theory, but It does it just as much on cold brakes, when you drive the car it feels like there is next to no rear braking and a massive amount of braking force at the front
    Last edited by Boosted VLAD; 03-12-2015 at 05:06 PM.

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