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Thread: Upgraded Cam

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    Upgraded Cam

    G'day fellas, I know there's already a thread about cam specs but I just want some more info. I'm looking at putting some cams in my 91 N14 SSS SR20DE and I have a couple in mind and wanted to know what you guys think in terms of performance and cost. I will also be getting a Nistune chip for it so I can really dial the engine in. The cams I have in mind are the Tomei Poncams 260 degree 11.2mm lift, Jim Wolfe Technology S3 260 degree 11.2mm lift and the Jim Wolfe Technology S3HL 260 degree 11.6mm lift. The purpose is to get a decent amount of power out of the engine without having say a big cam which doesn't gain power until above 5500rpm hence the reason for focusing on these cams. The car is for the street so it's not necessary for a big cam but if there is another cam that gains more power in the same power band but you have to do springs then let me know. Would there be any benefit to maybe doing adjustable sprockets? Also if I were to upgrade springs and set the rpm to about 8.5k would that be beneficial? Also does anyone know if JWT's pricing is in USD? Sorry for the multiple topics but am hoping that I can get some assistance, with other people's knowledge and some more detailed info about choosing a cam and maybe some other cam related upgrades. Thanks, Corey

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    PhilSSStevenson's Avatar
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    I've had these cams in the Red Jett for over a decade. Well recommended.

    And I installed the JWT adjustable cam sprockets (which are also 30% lighter than stock sprockets), with inlet set at 2.5 degrees for better round town snap. As recommended by Mike Kojima.

    http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus....asp?PartID=13

    Cheers.


    Mike Kojima and Sarah Forst luv them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Kojima

    https://www.amazon.com/Performance-N...7728630&sr=1-1
    (I've got the paperback, and din't realise how much they cost today. Anyone want it for $50? If so, I'll go to the selling forum.)
    Last edited by PhilSSStevenson; 31-05-2018 at 10:09 AM. Reason: typos...
    NISSAN Pulsar N14 SSS Oz spec - the SSS cult classic. Owned mine since 1992.

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    sss4me's Avatar
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    dont bother with cam gears. these cams run on factory centrelines. you most probably wont see any gain by moving them.

    with the standard de intake manifold, the power will be all over before 7k. no point revving past there.

    jwt is an american site, so price is in usd. if you buy b4 30th june, you will get out of paying gst, but they will be dearer than the tomei's.
    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    PhilSSStevenson's Avatar
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    On cam sprokets.

    Mike Kojima wrote:

    Adjustable Cam Sprockets
    Turbo magazine has reported huge gains in Honda and Acura engines with the addition of adjustable cam gears and dyno tuning. In my testing with Nissan SR20 JWT Street cams, the gains were inconclusive. I tried about 25 different combinations of advancing, retarding, lobe separation angle spreading and tightening with no gains worth keeping over the stock location.

    JWT has gone through pains to grind their cams with the proper lobe center straight up. If I got 2-3 more bottom end hp, I would lose 5 on top and vice versa. The best alternative timing was intake cam advanced 2 degrees. This had a gain of about 3 hp in the midrange and 1-2 on bottom end with loss of only about 1-2 on top. This setting might be good for street only driving or autocross where bottom end snap is important. When I deviated by more than 8 degrees of the factory lobe center, the OBD-II system triggered a MIL light.

    When building my 11:1 motor the gears were very important, allowing me to correct the cam timing despite milling 0.040 off the deck and head. When you mill things the cam timing retards and you can use adjustable gears to correct it. In fact anytime you mill your head and block like when doing a rebuild, you should use adjustable timing gears to restore proper cam timing.

    Stillen claims good gains with the adjustable gears and stock cams but I haven’t tested that myself. The gears are cheap and it would make a good project for someone besides me to do.

    JWT and Stillen make gears. The Stillen gears are two piece and are infinitely adjustable. The JWT gears are one piece and are adjustable in 2.5 degree increments. Both are about equally easy to use. The JWT gears are safer by being impossible to slip or vibrate apart and are cheap. The Stillen gears are more expensive, but are real trick looking and can be adjusted in very fine increments which could be an advantage.

    If you are going to play with your cam timing I suggest that advancing the intake cam slightly in the 2-3 degree range will most likely have a good effect on bottom end and midrange with only a slight loss of top end. This would be a good place too start.


    That's why I set intake at 2.5 deg. And they are lighter than stock.

    Hope this adds to the chat:

    http://www.se-r.net/car_info/engine_...am%20Sprockets

    Cheers . . .
    NISSAN Pulsar N14 SSS Oz spec - the SSS cult classic. Owned mine since 1992.

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    sss4me's Avatar
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    again,save the $$$ on not buying cam gears, and buy stuff that will raise hp.

    i actually tried this on my de when i had it. made bugger all difference. if you can feel 2-3hp, your doing better than me. most people will only feel 10% power change.
    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    Thanks for the replies. Im thinking JWT cams is the way to go but does anyone know about the S3HL cams? They're just .4mm more in lift but am unsure if they'd benefit over the standard S3. I didn't think gears would be any benefit and all i know is that they change the powerband from low end to high end or opposite. I'm also assuming that incresing the rev limit wouldn't be beneficial as it drops off before 7500 but with a cam i would've thought differently. Thanks. Corey.

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    sss4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSCORZA View Post
    Thanks for the replies. Im thinking JWT cams is the way to go but does anyone know about the S3HL cams? They're just .4mm more in lift but am unsure if they'd benefit over the standard S3. I didn't think gears would be any benefit and all i know is that they change the powerband from low end to high end or opposite. I'm also assuming that incresing the rev limit wouldn't be beneficial as it drops off before 7500 but with a cam i would've thought differently. Thanks. Corey.
    the high lift will bring small performance gains. not much. to make big performance you need more (lots more) duration. and a ve motor. the end.
    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    Would I need the cams professionally degreed? As from reading about installing aftermarket cams and that you should but I think it should be fine as long as it's in time. This is another reason I'd think cam gears are worth it because you can match the cam card specs more easily if they're out a little. Making them work how they should because it's not exactly possible to stretch the chain but there's always a chance which could put them out a couple degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilSSStevenson View Post
    I've had these cams in the Red Jett for over a decade. Well recommended.

    And I installed the JWT adjustable cam sprockets (which are also 30% lighter than stock sprockets), with inlet set at 2.5 degrees for better round town snap. As recommended by Mike Kojima.

    http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus....asp?PartID=13

    Cheers.


    Mike Kojima and Sarah Forst luv them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Kojima

    https://www.amazon.com/Performance-N...7728630&sr=1-1
    (I've got the paperback, and din't realise how much they cost today. Anyone want it for $50? If so, I'll go to the selling forum.)

    Did you get your cams degreed and adjust them from there? Or did you just drop them in and adjust and hope for the best because I imagine it would get frustrating having to take off the rocker cover all the time to change the degrees because you had it wrong in the first place? Just a question as the JWT gears arn't too much more extra to spend so I want to know if they would be good to have anyway.

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    sss4me's Avatar
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    your overthinking it. people (like me) have buggered around on a dyno for hours trying all kinds of difference centrelines to make more power, but 9 times out of 10, with the aftermarket cams ground on the oem centrelines, there is very little gain to be found. just throw them in, make sure the cam timing is right, and enjoy...
    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    I've been generally disappointed in the motoiq content from Mike Kojima, he's great in racing circles but the street stuff is not great

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilSSStevenson View Post
    On cam sprokets.

    Mike Kojima wrote:

    When building my 11:1 motor the gears were very important, allowing me to correct the cam timing despite milling 0.040 off the deck and head. When you mill things the cam timing retards and you can use adjustable gears to correct it. In fact anytime you mill your head and block like when doing a rebuild, you should use adjustable timing gears to restore proper cam timing.
    Milling 0.040" off a head is MASSIVE
    -not something you would normally do to a production head
    -normally skimming the head would take 1/4 of that
    Are you going to take 0.040" or 1mm off your head to raise the C/R?
    If not your head will be lowered by a tiny amount the cam timing changed by a tiny amount

    Further more a stock DE is very insensitive to bolt on modifications
    You're going to blow well over $2k for less than 10% improvement

    Like sss4me said - you're over thinking it

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    I've recently been looking a some Tomei Cams, I was looking at some Poncams which are 260 degree and 11.2mm lift, I was also looking at some procams like the 260 degree 12.00mm lift and the 270mm 12.5mm fit as I've found them for a really good price but am unsure if the pro cams would be worth it. From what I've read the procams are really good but I don't know anything about the power output and power band, could you please help me? Also the procams are for DET but want to know if they can be used in a DE. Also I know that you have to get springs with the procam which is fine considering how cheap i found them for. Also if the procams are high reving would cam gears be able to change that which means gaining bottom but loosing top which is fine if it's for street. Thanks Corey.
    Last edited by SSSCORZA; 29-06-2018 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSCORZA View Post
    I've read the procams are really good but I don't know anything about the power output and power band
    With no data what makes you think they are good???
    (Same issue with people buying cheap second hand coil overs with no idea what the spring rates are - duh!)

    Poncams are a soft option
    Procams medium option but need the valve springs upgraded

    It's hard and expensive to get significant power increases out of NA engines
    A decent cam (+ value springs!) and tune may get 10% more power for $3k
    (That's why low boost turbo is such a popular thing...but if you can't do most of the work yourself it will cost $$$)
    The fuel economy will suck and the idle will be lumpy

    To make big cams work you also need a lot of inlet and exhaust work that may attract unwanted attention from the boys in blue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    With no data what makes you think they are good???
    (Same issue with people buying cheap second hand coil overs with no idea what the spring rates are - duh!)

    Poncams are a soft option
    Procams medium option but need the valve springs upgraded

    It's hard and expensive to get significant power increases out of NA engines
    A decent cam (+ value springs!) and tune may get 10% more power for $3k
    (That's why low boost turbo is such a popular thing...but if you can't do most of the work yourself it will cost $$$)
    The fuel economy will suck and the idle will be lumpy

    To make big cams work you also need a lot of inlet and exhaust work that may attract unwanted attention from the boys in blue
    I found some of the info about people using the cams off the sr20 forum which gives a rough idea. https://www.sr20forum.com/all-motor/...#/topics/94143

    I also was only thinking procam since the jwt s3hl is $750 new without shipping and the procam 270 12.5 is $460 with shipping from FRSport in the US and then the cost of valve springs will be around $400 which is close to the jwt cams added up and possibly more power which is why i thought about them. In my eyes i just want a decent power output for the street whether its lumpy or not i would like the most power i can get with pretty much cams and other stuff like a tune. Also how bad is the fuel economy with cams? Thanks Corey

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    Nothing in that thread justifies a $3k spend

    You'll get more performance but I wouldn't call it decent or cost effective, boys with 5psi boost will smoke you

    Can't predict custom build fuel consumption

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    no point going bigger than s4's without bumping comp/headwork/new intake manifold. its cheaper to start modding a ve.
    quality is remembered long after price is forgotten

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    Fully agree, also solves the lifter issues

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    Quote Originally Posted by sss4me View Post
    no point going bigger than s4's without bumping comp/headwork/new intake manifold. its cheaper to start modding a ve.
    What sort of work is needed to install a VE head? Roughly a cost?

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    That's a question for your engine builder...

    It will cost $1500+ to buy a VE head but it's well worth it...much better platform

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    That's a question for your engine builder...

    It will cost $1500+ to buy a VE head but it's well worth it...much better platform
    Yeah I've always like the VE stuff but wouldn't I need other things like an intake manifold and oil pressure solenoids, Ecu to make it all work. I personally am a mechanic so I do all more work myself I just don't know very much in terms of performance modification. Would it be best to source a complete motor or even a VET from an xtrail just the only concern is the throttle is fly by wire and the stock n14 is cable. But if all in all it's cheaper or even a little bit more to do the VE then that sounds like a great idea since I know stock DE's make around 105 at the fly and VE's make around 140 at the fly which compared to say a DE with cams that make it around 125 - 130 at the fly its a decent increase in power.

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