N15 SSS Noise on Cold Start

SOLVED: Problem was the timing chain tensioner.

Part numbers for replacement parts:
13070-2J203 - Timing Chain Tensioner
13069-53J00 - O-Ring (not needed if using new tensioner)
13079-2J200 - Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket

Hey guys,

Car has made this noise a couple times in the last week or so, since changing oil to nulon 10w-40 full syth + genuine filter its been happening almost every time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJvjdhYD_i0

Research says tensioner, upper rail/guide or the chain is just cooked.

I can get a genuine tensioner for $30, is it worth starting there?

Hey Playboy,

If your car is Automatic - buggered if I know.

If your car is Manual - Starter Motor.

Why Starter Motor? The clutch dust has made its way up on, and well into the starter motor. This causes the nose/drive gear that engages against the flywheel not able to withdraw quickly enough - the sound you are hearing is the Starter Motor still engaged on the flywheel for a second or so while running.

When you have been thrashing around and the car is hot from mackin' like how all SSS's owners do, the bellhousing area and starter are hot enough to allow whatever is left of the bugger all lubrication you have within the nose of the starter to allow it to do its job properly.

How to fix it?

Jack your car up at the front, chuck some stands under it. Disconnect the battery. Get under the car and at the back of the engine you will see the starter. Disconnect the small plug that runs to the starter. While you are under there you should have taken your 12mm spanner. Pop the rubber boot off, undo the nut that holds the power cable on. After this there are 2x 14mm socket sized bolts that hold the starter motor into the bellhousing. Attack these from the top of the car, in the engine bay under all the intake pipework.

Once the starter is out, it's like lego. Pull it apart.. you will work it out.. google or youtube. Clean all the dust off it.. get some 'Hi Temp Bearing Grease' - chuck it on the 3x gears and a little on the shaft. Re-assemble and put it all back together.

If this doesn't fix your problem... remember my advice was free and you were catfished... *shrug*

If this fixes your problem, donate a couple of bucks to the forum, thank CoZZm0 because he taught me all the above (although he didn't call me Playboy- he insisted that I should grow a ratty and put a 'Only God can judge me' sticker on the back of my SSS... but that's another story).

Good luck player!

Timing chain tensioner rattle. Genuine for $30 sounds like a steal if its new with the gasket.


Starter motor is more of a running your fingernails down a chalk board type screeching sound and only when the car is cranking usually on a cold morning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cozzm0

Timing chain tensioner rattle. Genuine for $30 sounds like a steal if its new with the gasket.


Starter motor is more of a running your fingernails down a chalk board type screeching sound and only when the car is cranking usually on a cold morning.

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Haha - I did put a disclaimer at the end..... ;)

Thanks Omega, i'll keep it in mind! Sounds like tensioner is a little easier so i might try that first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cozzm0

Timing chain tensioner rattle. Genuine for $30 sounds like a steal if its new with the gasket.


Starter motor is more of a running your fingernails down a chalk board type screeching sound and only when the car is cranking usually on a cold morning.

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Yeah Genuine for $31 + 8 for genuine gasket from Amayama.

Can i get confirmation that the part numbers are:

Tensioner - 13070-2J203
Gasket - 13079-2J200

Reason i ask is search up that tensioner brings up compatibility for SR20DET silvia motors etc

yeh S15 same part

Awesome thanks, i'll report back with the results when i get the tensioner in!

Cozzm0 have you done one before/any tips for install?

Ive watched a few videos on it, seems like i need to get it to TDC (need to read up on what that is and how to do it) and there seems to be a latch on the tensioner that needs to be engaged when it goes in then crank the 27mm pulley bolt anti-clockwise a fraction to get the latch to release the tensioner onto the chain?

Looks like a tight fit, hopefully it doesnt spit oil everywhere when i take out the filter!

Here tizz all the info you need.

Changed mine twice even.

http://www.se-r.net/zotz/se-r_tensioner.htm

Cheers.

It could also be the top chain guide between the cam gears i've been told too. but i did tensioner before and it fixed it as long as its genuine tensioner. aftermarket made it worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cozzm0

It could also be the top chain guide between the cam gears i've been told too. but i did tensioner before and it fixed it as long as its genuine tensioner. aftermarket made it worse.

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Might well be. I removed mine when installing the JWT S3 Cams.

However, to save removing the cam cover, try the tensioner first. Most likely best bet.

Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilSSStevenson

Here tizz all the info you need.

Changed mine twice even.

http://www.se-r.net/zotz/se-r_tensioner.htm

Cheers.

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That is a fantastic write up thank you!

However, it makes no mention to adjusting for top dead centre, is it unnecessary? Did you guys bother?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cozzm0

It could also be the top chain guide between the cam gears i've been told too. but i did tensioner before and it fixed it as long as its genuine tensioner. aftermarket made it worse.

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Yeah heard this but hopefully not, have read its not really recommended to remove it.

Another thought guys, the car noise has 100% become more frequent since an oil change, it was running 15w-40 before so could it be the thinner oil it doesn't like?

Doesnt make sense since a lot of people have said using a thinner 5w-30 quietened it down or fixed the problem, last service record from 10,000km's ago says it was filled with 5w-30.

Also, i dont know how but i only put in about 3.2l and it looks like ive overfilled according to the dipstick, its sitting just above the H when completely cold, perhaps i should drain some?

You need to follow the instructions. No need for top dead centre.

I've changed mine twice, so I know.

sump is 3.4lts with filter. 3.2ltrs without filter. if you put it 3.2 and its overfilled, theres issues somewhere. sumps not dinted?

listened 20 times to this, it sounds like a metal resonance to me. got to say tensioner or top guide. dont think n15's even had a top guide (mine didnt), so my money is on the tensioner, especially if you've got a genuine filter on (non gen can be noisy with no drain valve), and thin oil.

thin oil makes for quicker oil pressure from cold, which is when most engine wear comes from. it can make the motor noisy compared to thicker oil though if the motor is old. maybe try a 10w-40 next time as that is a better choice for an older motor. good luck!

Eh are you sure? Book says 3.4 with, 3.2 without filter. Nah sumps definitely not dinted.

I did use a 10w-40 this time, owner before me put 15w-40 5000kms ago and the service history 5000kms before that had 5w-30.

I guess i'll keep running 10w-40 and hope the tensioner fixes it, failing that i'll start testing with a thinner 5w-30/40 or thicker 15w-40.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ptenkae

Eh are you sure? Book says 3.4 with, 3.2 without filter. Nah sumps definitely not dinted.

I did use a 10w-40 this time, owner before me put 15w-40 5000kms ago and the service history 5000kms before that had 5w-30.

I guess i'll keep running 10w-40 and hope the tensioner fixes it, failing that i'll start testing with a thinner 5w-30/40 or thicker 15w-40.

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yes, i double checked, and amended ^^
hope the tensioner fixes it, it should

The SR20 loves Castrol Edge 5W30. That's all I have ever used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilSSStevenson

You need to follow the instructions. No need for top dead centre.

I've changed mine twice, so I know.

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Tensioner arrived! Will put it in in a few days.

2 questions:

1. When soaking it in oil, does it help to pump the shaft back and forth to try bleed the air out ?
2. When you installed the new one, did the latch disengage when you fastened it down or did you have to turn the crank anti-clockwise until you heard it click?

Ive read it bad to start the engine with it still engaged, or is that what turning the engine over with the coil wire disconnected is for? (looking at the steps from the SE-R guide)

1. You don't need to soak it.
2. You can pop the clip off manually by pushing on the chain guide. I would prefer to do this to avoid / reduce the chance of skipping teeth on the cam gears. Some have gotten away with just manually turning the motor over in reverse slightly, which tensions the chain on the firewall side of the timing case, which should release the clip.

You want to avoid the motor starting straight up because it takes time to get oil pressure into the tensioner for the first time (although soaking it could help, but the spring is quite strong so its a pain in the ass to compress again!). For N15 you turn the motor over with the CAS (distributor) plug unplugged (the one with like 6 pins on the distributor) this will stop spark and fuel if you want to do that.

If the car doesn't idle smoothly, its skipped a tooth and you'll need to pull it apart again to fix that...

Hey guys, all fixed!

Turns out it was the timing chain tensioner; mine had the old tensioner with the thicker teeth than the new one.

I decided not to follow the SE-R guide exactly after reading this amazing thread: http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread....ement-Easy-Way.

Highly detailed and lists the part numbers which i'll put in the OP.

His method is basically the same but it does instruct to bring the engine to TDC for a few reasons:

(In reply to someone who said they simply just put the tensioner in and started the engine)

Quote:

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That method is actually really dangerous and that's why I went with my new method above. Reason is if your engine is not TDC when you pull the chain tension the cams can rotate independently and jump teeth. If you don't rotate the crank slowly after the install, you run the risk of jumping more teeth when the powerful starter cranks the motor.

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Because this was my first time i went a step or two further:

1. Remove valve cover
2. rotate engine to TDC
3. Zip tie chain to sprocket
4. removed old tensioner
5. Installed new tensioner (soaked first)
6. Cut cable ties
7. Rotate crank anti-clockwise a couple small turns (you should hear the tensioner unhook but mine came off during install)
8. Rotate crank clockwise 1 full rotation until back at TDC.
9. Disconnected spark wires + 6-pin connector on distributor (thanks Cozzm0)
10. Crank engine couple times for 1-2 seconds
11. Reconnect spark wires + 6-pin connector
12. Start her up

The chain rattled for a 30-60 seconds and then quietened down, and did not rattle this morning so problem solved!

Thanks guys!

I might steal those pictures with permission and make a write up for this forum as that thread was like the 20th i opened on the topic.